Q: Clearly, Mr Albanese, there are expanding defence cooperations going on between Russia and Indonesia. They held some exercises in November. And just yesterday Russia’s Deputy Prime Minister met the Indonesian President in Jakarta. Does this concern you?

Albanese:

Well, that’s an extraordinary double down from the alternative Prime Minister of Australia who verballed the Indonesian President yesterday. Indonesia will be the fourth largest economy in the world. They are an important partner of Australia.

We have an important defence relationship with Indonesia as well. I regard the Indonesian President as a personal friend and we have good relations there. The idea you throw out these comments is just extraordinary. And the fact that we just saw a double down on it as if there’s nothing to see here, just shows there’s no understanding of the need for diplomacy. Diplomacy means engaging seriously in a calibrated, serious way. Treating Indonesia with respect, as we do other nations that we deal with.

Q: Quickly on that, you pointed out Indonesia is an important partner and President Subianto is a personal friend. Why haven’t you been to Indonesia since he became President? Because I’ve been here domestically but the President I have spoken with and the President was here just before his inauguration. When did you last speak?

Albanese:

He’s a regular visitor. We have discussions at the senior levels of government.

Dutton:

I think the Prime Minister is full of bluster because he knows he’s got it wrong again in relation to national security. This is a government that’s ripped $80 billion out of defence and we have seen the relationship in relation to Indonesia and Russia grow closer. Now Indonesia is an incredibly important partner. I met with the President-elect when he was out here and had a very good relationship with him as Defence Minister when we were both in that portfolio.

I had a lot to do with the previous President in Indonesia as well. So we have a stable solid relationship. But that means that if there is to be some change in the security settings in our region, that if there is respect for the Albanese government, of course there is not at the moment because they see this Prime Minister as weak.

Then why wouldn’t there be a response or why wouldn’t there be even to the Foreign Minister, to the Defence Minister to say this…

Albanese:

This is important. Peter is suggesting there should bow a response to something that isn’t happening. This is the second of the failures that we have seen of diplomacy and of mature responses to international issues just during this campaign. When President Trump made the announcement that every single country in the world will be hit with tariffs, the alternative Prime Minister suggested that we should put defence and our defence relationship with the US on the bargaining table. And it took John Howard to intervene to point out how that would be.