Q: I think one of the issues with plan B is there’s not many sort of credible options given that Australia’s record on submarines is burning everyone who has offered to sell us one essentially. We saw, obviously, your predecessor, Tony Abbott, with the wink and the handshake deal with the Japanese. Obviously torched the relationship with the French over the attack class. We talk about the need for a plan B but what is a realistic plan B, given…

Turnbull:

Look, you cannot deal with a risk unless you acknowledge it exists. This is the fundamental problem that they’re literally in denial. I won’t say who it was but I was speaking to have a very senior official in this area the other day and I said, “What is your plan if the Virginias do not arrive,” and he looked me straight in the eye and he said to me, “They will arrive.” And I said that’s actually not the answer to the question I asked. I said what will you do if they don’t. He said, “They will arrive.” After he said it a few times this is like me saying to you, “I am having a party in the park or the garden, on Sunday and invite you,” and if you say, “What are you going to do if it rains?” And I say, “It won’t rain.”

We have a real risk here that is contemplated by the parties. It is real. It’s set out. It’s been flagged by the new deputy secretary of defence, in his confirmation hearings. It’s self-evident. But denial. Here’s the problem.

You’re right. The alternative submarine plans are difficult but they’re not even being looked at. Doing nothing, however, is even worse because then you have nothing. At least if you say, alright, the odds are we’re not going to get any subs, let’s acquire some other long-range capabilities that may not be as effective but at least do something. It is as though the Government and Opposition are frozen in bipartisan at the oar of admitting the truth. That’s the problem and where the system is failing us. Bipartisanship is all very well but not when the two sides of politics are united in error.