Q: You say you have to be tough to deal with Donald Trump. Peter Dutton, you know, says he’s the guy to do that. He can stand up to Trump and also forge a productive working relationship. Anthony Albanese is struggling to get a call with Trump. Maybe that won’t hurt him. In the long run, depending on what happens with the tariffs decision. But from your perspective, who would be the better leader to deal with Donald Trump.

Turnbull:

I honestly couldn’t pick between them, really. Being frank with you, I think it’s really hard to say. I think Dutton has a particular challenge, it’s a two-edged sword for Dutton. On the one hand, he would say, “I’ve got a great relationship with Gina Rinehart. She’s a friend, one of the biggest donors to the Liberal Party and to Dutton’s cause and she’s made a beeline for Trump and,” and he would say he’s got access to Trump through those connections. I don’t think it would do you any good but that’s sort of the pitch and that’s the kind of thing that, you know, frankly, on the right-wing media, that is the line that is being put.

Dutton is closer to Trump politically and therefore would be able to deal better with him. That’s one side of the coin. On the other side of the coin, the problem Peter has is that his political environment is that right-wing media ecosystem, you know, Sky After Dark, shock jocks, Murdoch tabloids, your paper (the Australian) That’s part of the world in which he operates and it’s all tied up with Fox News intimately connected to the Trump Administration, so the difficulty of taking on Trump is you’re then taking on the most popular person in the ecosystem in which you live, OK? So I think the only way you’ll find out is if he becomes prime minister and does that

Albanese doesn’t have that. He doesn’t have the advantage of great connections through, you know, plutocrats and billionaires but he also doesn’t have the problem that his political base, his media environment, if you like, is, you know, fan boys for Donald Trump.