In terms of more serious issues, Albanese was also pressed on the why of it all in regards to his six-day visit to China, and in particular, his relationship with leader Xi Jinping.

Albanese had a private lunch with Xi, which is a rarity for a western world leader. He says it was “personal” and he will not discuss what the pair spoke about, other than it gave him a better insight into who Xi is:

Albanese:

We raised a whole range of issues. Because it was personal, I’m not going to go into the detail. But it wasn’t so much discussing the affairs of state that we did in our formal bilateral meeting as President of China and Prime Minister of Australia. It was more talking about personal issues, our history, our backgrounds.
 

Ferguson : What did you learn about his history and background?
 
Albanese:

I learned a fair bit, but again, they’re personal. He’s, I think, quite a private person. And it’s important that you are able to have those conversations, but in order to understand where people are coming from, you’ve got to know their background and you’ve got to know some of their views about personal things. And I feel as though we got to know each other much more.
 

Ferguson: You said that there were jokes. What were the jokes about?
 
Albanese:

The jokes were about all sorts of things, but once again, I’m going to keep that private. But he had showed a real sense of humour and it was a very warm conversation that we had. He, of course, has visited all six states and territories in Australia. Now, most Australians have not done that.
 

He says Taiwan and other “heavy” policy issues were not discussed but again said he would not go into detail because he will not break the Xi’s trust that private conversations will be private. What is that trust worth?

Albanese:

Well, what it’s worth is not coming on the program and talking about the personal issues. For example, that shows a level of engagement there and building personal relations. It’s no different from building personal relations around this building or at a Labor party conference, engaging internationally…

So would Xi take a phone call from him over Taiwan if that issue boiled over?

Albanese:

That’s a hypothetical which I’m not going to go into. But I have said before that anything that he has said to me has been fulfilled. There hasn’t been any breaches of personal commitments that he has given to me. That doesn’t mean he’s agreed with everything that I’ve put forward, far from it. But I’d rather that than someone on an international level saying, ‘yep, we can do all that’, and then doing the opposite.
 

Ferguson: So, you trust him that when he says something, he’s going to keep his word?
 
Albanese:

I have no reason to point to any breach that has occurred up to this point.
 

Ferguson: That’s about the past. What about the future?
 
Albanese:

Well, all I can do is talk about the past, because I can just talk about facts rather than – going forward we don’t know what it will bring. We know there are significant differences. China and Australia have different political systems, we have different values. We have our alliance with the United States, which is very important. We’re a democratic nation and tomorrow will be the expression of that democracy.