How do the Greens see Australia’s defence role and who should it be looking to in the region?

Bandt:

Australia should be a force for peace. Australia should be a force for peace. And we should do everything we can to be contributing to de-escalating tensions in the world at the moment. If there was a conflict – including an armed conflict – between the US and China, it would be devastating for the world, as well as being devastating for Australia. We’re in a position where we’ve got relationships with both countries.

And we are in a position to now start joining with those other countries that Donald Trump is attacking and saying, “We need a new way of doing things that puts peace first.” At the moment, Labor and Liberal have completely 100% put us in Donald Trump’s pocket and given us next to no room for manoeuvre at all.

Economically – you mentioned a number of things there. Economically, there are other countries now that are bearing the brunt of Trump’s tariffs. We should be exploring and deepening relationships with them. He’s doing this to a large part of the world, including people with whom we’ve got a lot in common in Europe, for example.

There’s some significant opportunities there for us. Likewise on the security front – we have to get out of AUKUS and on ANZUS that you mentioned.

That is something we need to renegotiate. It is something we need to renegotiate. Because Australia has, I think, a not very proud history of following the United States into every war it has chosen to go into.

And I don’t think we should be signing up in advance to go off and join whatever war Donald Trump wants to fight next. Like, he’s already made – he’s already made a number of claims about how he will use troops and so on.

We should be putting our country first. And instead, what we’ve got is Peter Dutton, who wants to bring Trump-style politics to Australia, and Anthony Albanese, in the middle of all of this, going out and inviting Trump to come out to Australia.

As if sucking up to these bullies is going to change the way they do things. No, we have to put our country’s interest first, be a force for peace and de-escalation, and exploring economic relationships with those other countries who are also in the firing line of Trump, because that is I think how we will set ourselves up for the future. And it also begins to pave the way to isolate him. And that’s what you should do with bullies like that: work with others and isolate him.

Q: In March, your party unveiled a costed policy for new military programs. Do you intend to make your backing for a potential minority government contingent on cutting military spending and dumping AUKUS?

Adam Bandt:

We have outlined what our priorities are and the priorities that we put on the table in a balance-of-power situation – anti-native forest logging, getting dental into Medicare, making childcare free, and housing reform. We’ll announce more as we go on.

We think we can win the argument about AUKUS on its merits. Now is precisely the wrong time for Australia to be joined at the hip to Donald Trump.

Not only are these AUKUS submarines never going to arrive – because they’re not building them fast enough, and the US government has said they don’t consider giving them to Australia as a priority – but they’re about joining Australia at the hip to a dangerous demagogue in the United States. And they’re not about defending our country – they’re about joining Donald Trump in his next attack that he wants to make on someone else.

Our position should be about defending Australia, not joining in Donald Trump’s next war of aggression. We think we’ve got the Australian people behind us on this. We think we’ve got the Australian people behind us on this, and that this is an argument that we can win.

And with – can I say, with Trump – Labor and Liberal have tied us so closely to Donald Trump’s America over so many years now that it is time to start having a more independent relationship and assessing our relationship with Donald Trump.

At the moment, I get that a lot of people are really worried about what is coming out of the White House. There is a great deal of fear and apprehension. To paraphrase Bec Shaw, we’re watching the world being burned down by powerful men – we just didn’t know they would be such losers. (There is laughter, because Bec is brilliant at putting comedy and heart together to make a point that resonates)

But seriously – people are holding their loved ones close.

People are flicking through news articles in their feeds because it is too distressing. People are thinking about their future. And my message would be – you’re not alone. There are millions of us across this country right now who do not want Australia to go down the US route. Who want to detach ourselves from Donald Trump and to look after us in this country. Trump and the billionaires and those who back him – they will try to pick us off one by one, but they can’t beat us all together. And there are millions of us – there are millions of us in this country at the moment – who do not believe in what Donald Trump is doing and do not believe in what Peter Dutton is doing.

And this election is an incredible chance to say – say no to that big-loser energy that can is coming out of the White House, and we want us to be a country where everyone can afford the basics and, where we are not joined at the hip to Donald Trump the next time he decides to go and press the nuclear codes and go to war.

Q: One of the key things that you would have in the House of Representatives over the Senate in terms of balance of power is that the confidence lever – being able to have a sway in a vote of confidence in a balance of power – is that something that you would consider using to achieve your objectives and aims?

Adam Bandt:

I would expect that the next – the government will respect the parliament that the Australian people choose. I’d be astounded if they didn’t. And what we know is that there are going to be more voices in the next parliament, and greater diversity. And that is a good thing. That puts an obligation on us, I think, to work together. To work together.

And to ensure that we get outcomes for people. One of the things I learnt from last time in 2010 is that there’s the ability to get things done at the start, and then there’s the ability to get things done during the course of the parliament. At the start, we got dental into Medicare for kids. Dental am to Medicare for kids, and world-leading climate legislation.

And we got more reforms as the parliament went on.

So, yes, in that situation where Labor or Liberal doesn’t have a majority, we keep Peter Dutton out and we would get Labor to act using that position that you describe, but also during the course of the parliament continuing to put good ideas on the table and getting them passed.

What are those big shifts?

Bandt:

The Prime Minister couldn’t convince a third of the country to vote for him last time. There’s less than a third of the country voting for the government. A bit more than a third voting for the opposition. And about a third voting for someone else. People are realising that we can’t keep voting for the same two parties and expect a different result.

And they want more voices at the table. And I think, as that flows through to the election, and there are more voices at the table – as there have been in the Senate now for a period of time – there’s going to be an obligation on those old parties to listen to new ideas. That is what people are crying out for. I think it would be incredibly popular to put dental into Medicare.

The things that we are putting on the table would be things that I think would stand the next government as a beacon of progressive reform that would go down in history. That is the exciting opportunity that is there for us.

So I think the short answer is that I think times are changing, people want more voices at the table, and they want governments to listen to the ideas that are being put there, work together, because good ideas should be implemented. And it’s about time that things like dental into Medicare became a reality.

Q: At your campaign launch in 2022, you announced seven policy priorities when exercising the balance of power in the Senate during the current term. No new coal and gas. Free childcare, dental and Medicare, et cetera. You weren’t able to achieve the vast majority of those during this term of parliament, with balance of power in the Senate.

What will you do differently in the next term of parliament, either with that balance of power in the Senate, or even with balance of power in the House of Representatives as well, to achieve the things you say are going to be your priorities in the next term?

Adam Bandt:

We’ve achieved a lot. And it’s clear from this parliament already that Greens pressure works. $3.5 billion extra for public and community housing – extra money spent that was never on the table before. Ensuring that water flows to the Murray – that’s something that has been achieved.

Getting the right to disconnect for workers so that people can clock off when they log off. All of that, we’ve been able to achieve in this parliament in a majority government, right? And we now see, as we head towards the election, Labor deciding to adopt our policies to make supermarket price gouging illegal after they voted against it in parliament – but now are supporting it.

We’re seeing – we is a them adopt our plan to triple-bulk-billing incentive for GPs so that we can get a step closeren for being able to see a GP for free.

This is happening because there are Greens in parliament. When we were in minority parliament last time, we got dental into Medicare for kids. We have a track record of delivering.

More Greens in parliament gives us a greater chance of getting these outcomes. One of the things I’ve noticed about this place over the years is that they all say, “No, no, no, no, no” until they say yes. (LAUGHTER)

The Greens were the only one pushing for marriage equality for years. All the other parties said, “No, no, no,” and then they said yes.

We were the only ones pushing for a National Anti-Corruption Commission.

They said, “No, no, no, no, no,” until they said yes.

What that shows is that more Greens in parliament – we’re getting to put these ideas on the table. The next parliament – the reason I think it’s such an exciting opportunity, and the ability to actually get a lot of these dings done – is that there are big shifts happening.

To the questions: Where is Max Chandler-Mather?

Bandt:

Max Chandler-Mather has helped us craft this policy and is the reason that we are having a national discussion about how to make sure that renters and first-home buyers have a chance. Finally, thanks to the advocacy of Max Chandler-Mather – backed by all of us, the third of the country who rents now has a voice at the table.

We are campaigning right across the country, and we take nothing for granted in any of our seats, especially people who’ve been elected for the first time.

And people are out busy campaigning, just as we saw Max Chandler-Mather, Elizabeth Watson-Brown and Stephen Bates during the course of the recent floods and threats in Brisbane working side by side with their community to make sure they are prepared. I think people in Griffith know that Max is in their corner, and they know that the Greens are there to campaign and fight for them, and he has helped ensure that we are having a debate about housing and intergenerational fairness in this country in a way that no-one else has.

I thank him for helping us develop this policy – this policy that will protect mum-and-dad investors, but also ensure that renters and first-home buyers have a chance. The Greens are the party of renters and first-home buyers thanks, in large part, to the work, the terrific work, he’s done as our Housing spokesperson.

Adam Bandt on rent controls:

We also need to regulate rents like we regulate other essential services. Since the start of the pandemic, rents increased by 49%. Much more than wages and incomes.

Unlimited rent increases should be illegal.

Landlords cannot be allowed to raise the rent by whatever number they want. There has to be limits. Rents don’t fall when mortgage rates fall. Labor claims they can’t do it, but they got the states and territories together to cap and regulate power prices, and they can do it with rents as well. And today, I’m releasing new data which shows that, if a rent freeze was released when we first announced it, the average household would have saved $6,318.

In total, renters across the country would have saved $13.8 billion. So, as the party of renters and first home buyers, the Greens have got a 3-point plan to fix the housing crisis. Get government to build homes that will save you $250,000 when you buy them and $320 a week when you rent them. Cap rent increases and make unlimited rent increases illegal. And level the playing field for first-home buyers by winding back the billions in unfair tax handouts to wealthy property investors.

We can build homes that people can afford. We can stop giving tax handouts to people who have five investment properties. These are tried and true methods done in this country before, and with a bit of vision we can do them again. And, excitingly, we are on the verge of making it happen, because there are big, seismic shifts at work this election.

There are 7 million renters in this country. A third of the country rents, and renters and first-home buyers now have a political voice in the Greens. This election, for the first time, those getting locked out – gen Zs and millennials – will be the biggest voting bloc.

With a minority government coming, the third of the country who rents and who are locked out of owning a home will finally get a seat at the table, even if they can’t currently afford a roof over their head. This election, the Greens are fighting for renters and first-home buyers. If you’re worried about the cost of living and housing, you are not alone, and we will fight for you.

But real, lasting reform needs everyone’s support. If you’re a gen Z or millennial, you get it – the housing system is cooked, and it’s not in your favour. If you’re saving and saving, we will fight for you. But if you’re older, ask your kids who they’re voting for.

Vote for your kids and future generations so that they can enjoy the security of home ownership that you might have had. I have parents tell me that, even though they may have personally benefited from some of these schemes, they can see now that the effect is unfair. And they support reform so that their kids will have a chance. This is the kind of country that the Greens believe in.

Bandt then speaks on the policy the Greens are offering:

But we have to do it in a way which recognises that there are huge numbers of people who are using this scheme to look after their retirement.

People who’ve made plans for their future based on the levers available to them. These people aren’t billionaires or wealthy property investors. It’s not their fault that the system is so broken. Mum-and-dad investors aren’t out to screw the system, but just to look after their future.

And they make up more than two-thirds of the people who use negative gearing. We will protect these existing mum-and-dad investors by grandfathering negative gearing and capital gains taxes with one investment property. That remains with them forever.

But in the future, the capital gains tax discount will be replaced with the indexation method that used to be in place under Keating. It won’t be available for residential investment properties, and future purchases, or more than one existing property, won’t be eligible for negative gearing.

If you want to buy more than one or two investment properties, that’s your prerogative. But you shouldn’t expect a government cheque to help you buy your third, fourth, or 15th house while millions have none. It’s just basic fairness. And this will make a difference. This will make a difference.

The data that we’re releasing today shows that just these changes to negative gearing and capital gains tax concessions could lead to more than 850,000 people living in their own home. The Liberals blame migrants for a problem that they didn’t cause, while Labor tinkers around the edges. The Greens will make the changes needed to fix the housing crisis. To drive down represents and make sure everyone can buy a first home, we also need government to build lots of homes that people can actually afford to rent and buy. It’s worked before and it will work again. If the government built homes and rented or sold them at an affordable price, we could drive down rents and provide more people with a place to live. Making sure that everyone has an affordable home is the government’s business. That’s why we’ve launched a policy for a public property developer. He could build 610,000 new homes to rent or buy over the next decade. On average around Australia, renters would save $16,600 a year, while first-home buyers could save up to $249,000 compared to the private market. We know this plan is possible because it’s what the government did after World War II.

Adam Bandt continues:

Imagine being a renter armed with your life savings rocking up to an auction knowing that the wealthy property investor next to you gets a big, fat cheque from Anthony Albanese and Peter Dutton – schemes that these politicians themselves have benefited from – but lets them bid up the price out of reach of first-home buyers. How is that fair?

Over the next 10 years, there’s $176 billion in tax handouts going to wealthy property investors. Anthony Albanese and Peter Dutton give more help to someone who owns five homes to go and buy their sixth than they do for someone trying to buy their first.

That is wrong. That is just wrong. If you earn your money through wages, you have to pay the normal tax rate – but people who have 15 houses a 50% discount on their tax when they sell those properties. It’s a government-sanctioned rort for the wealthy, with 80% of the gains from capital gains tax handouts going to the top 10% of income earners. This is wrong.

It’s a Liberal scam backed by Labor, and it is tearing our country apart. Negative gearing and the capital gains tax discount cost us more than $10 billion a year. This is more than the $8.4 billion that state and territory governments spent on public and community housing combined.

This is wrong. I can announce today that the Greens will make reforming negative gearing and the capital gains tax discount a priority in the next parliament – including when there’s a minority government. This reform has always been urgent, but the threat of a Trump-fuelled attack on Australian renters and first-home buyers in the next few months now makes this a matter of housing life and death. Welcome interest rate cuts are on the cards, thankfully.

But they will also be a magnet for property speculators unless we change these warped incentives now. Renters and first-home buyers may get smashed even further in the next few months, as wealthy investors – spooked by Trump – leave stocks and shares and pile into property, pushing house prices into the stratosphere. Investors with big money behind them could jump into the housing market because of these incentives and lower interest rates, while first-home buyers with their life savings would be priced out of the already overheated market.

If you think it’s a horror show on real estate websites now, it could be about to get much worse unless we reform negative gearing and capital gains tax discounts now. We need to act urgently, within weeks after the election, to protect renters and first-home buyers from Trump’s fallout. Otherwise, the door may be slammed shut forever. The Greens’ plan would see negative gearing and capital gains tax discounts scrapped for wealthy property investors but preserved for what are often called mum-and-dad investors, with one investment property.

John Howard left us a time bomb. It needs to be defused.

Adam Bandt is asked about housing and says:

I want to talk about housing for a moment. Nothing is more urgent than housing. And we are at breaking point. On housing, the Greens are refusing to join in this battle of the bandaids between Labor and the Liberals. Their approach is breaking the social contract and it’s tearing the country apart. Our proposal is a serious attempt to restore and protect everyone’s economic rights, giving younger generations and renters a chance at home ownership while protecting mum-and-dad investors.

Former Treasury Secretary Ken Henry warned us that wilful acts of bastardry from successive governments – including failing to fix capital gains tax to make housing more affordable – are robbing young people of their future.

If we don’t stop the bastards, house prices will get further and further out of reach. Rents will continue to keep rising. And there will be fewer and fewer genuinely affordable places to live. And in those tales of political bastardry that Ken had Henry is talking about, perhaps the biggest bastard of them all was John Howard, former Liberal prime minister, who single-handedly put house prices out of reach of first-home buyers with the capital gains tax discount in 1999. Before he did this, in the 1980s, the average house cost about three times the average income.

Now, it has more than doubled to eight times the average income.

Why did Howard’s handout to wealthy property investors in 1999 – fully backed now by both Anthony Albanese and Peter Dutton – smash first-home buyers and stressed mortgage holders a quarter of a century later? Because, when combined with negative gearing, the cost of housing increased rapidly. A wealthy property investor with a portfolio of other people’s homes can turn up at an auction and push the price up so that it’s out of reach of a renter looking to buy their first home. The investor can write rental losses off on tax while they own it and then, when they sell it, they get a tax break worth potentially hundreds of thousands of dollars from the government. How is that fair? How is that fair?