The debate ends and again, there is no major win, no screw ups, and no inspiring moments.

So you would probably give it to Anthony Albanese (if that matters) but maybe this isn’t a format that serves us any longer?

There was also no questions on how Australia would treat Israel moving forward (which is something that a voter asked in the Sky debate), how either party would act on poverty (raising the rate has not been mentioned at all this campaign, what are the long term plans for the future and how we plan on dealing with a changing geopolitical world.

But that is indicative of this campaign isn’t it? Small targets, small ideas, big utes.

Thank you to everyone who joined us today – we truly appreciate it. We will be back early tomorrow morning before the easter break, so we hope you will join us. You are the one shining light of this campaign and we really, really are grateful.
Until then, take care of you. Ax

They are not asked to comment on something they like about each other, but they are asked if they kinda like each other.
Who cares.

I have no interest in what their private relationship is like, or whether or not they are personally great people, or funny, or remember your birthday.

WHAT DO THEY DO WITH POWER? It is the only question that matters.

Albanese:

Neither side of politics has done well enough for First Nations people. That’s just a fact. And that’s something that breaks my heart. But, what we did post referendum was I went to GARMA and spoke about economic empowerment of Indigenous people. We have a series of programs. Firstly, taking what was essentially a Work for the Dole scheme. Creating real jobs with real training and real outcomes. Something like 40,000 Indigenous people that have benefited from tree TAFE. We’re — free TAFE. We’re putting additional funds into Particularly areas like dialysis. We have a 10-year program on remote housing. On education. We are pumping record funding into schools and that particularly will benefit areas like Cape York and the Northern Territory, Indigenous schools as well.

It is pointed out that neither leader has been to an Indigenous community this campaign. The stark results of the Closing the Gap failures is shown.

Dutton, who boycott the National Apology to the Stolen Generations and also destroyed the voice campaign says:

I can point to many trips that we’ve made to East Arnhem Land, Alice Springs and many communities across the countries that campaign isn’t just made up of the last 15 days or whatever it’s been. It’s made up of our term over the last three years. We went to Alice Springs and we spoke to a lot of people after the Voice in particular where people were devastated because the ppractical assistance promised by the Prime Minister hasn’t been delivered and the attempt was made to divide our country on the Voice. I think the Government has done a lot of damage in relation to this area.

Everyone is on a unity ticket with Aukus.

Yippee

Matt Grudnoff:

Dutton talks about negotiating 11 free trade agreements.

One of those was with China. Then China cut trade in barley, crayfish, wine etc.

Another was with The US. Now the US has put at 10% tariff on all Australian exports.

Good job on the free trade agreements.

Q: Come back to Donald Trump. It’s a while since you’ve had a conversation and had a tariff put on us of 10% and steel and aluminium. You have suggested some deal around critical minerals is on the table. What is that, Mr Albanese? What exactly are you offering Donald Trump?

Albanese:

We’ll engage diplomatically, not through TV interview, but we have put forward a proposition to the US. The US have put forward publicly their complaints about Australia. We won’t budge on the Pharmaceutical Benefits Scheme. We won’t budge on biosecurity issues. We won’t budge on the media bargaining code. We will stand up for Australia’s national interests because that is important. So we’ll continue to engage with the US.

Q: You said critical minerals have been put on the table. So what is it?

Albanese:

A critical minerals reserve is just that. It’s a reserve of the critical minerals and rare earths which Australia has an abundance of critical minerals – we have the entire periodic table here.

Q: And what do you say? You can have it? At a discount?

Albanese:

No. We will negotiate.

Q: The US is very keen to get access to critical minerals and rare earths. The trade dispute with China is particularly concerning to many in the US economy. Will we reserve this for the US?

Albanese:

No. We’ll negotiate with the US rather than with you, David, with respect. I

Q: Mr Dutton, you’ve said you’ll get a deal very quickly with Donald Trump. He would drop these tariffs. No other leader has managed this. How do you plan to pull this one off?

Dutton:

We did in the 45th presidency when President Trump was first elected. We were able to negotiate as a government then an outcome where Australia was exempt.

Q: How would you do it now? It was Malcolm Turnbull at the time. It’s a lot harder now.

Dutton:

As we did last time, we were able to leverage relationships. Sadly for our country, ambassador Rudd can’t get into the West Wing and can’t get a meeting with the President.

Q: What does leverage mean?

Dutton:

We look at with whom we have a relationship and contacts and those external to the administration. We didn’t think Donald Trump was going to get elected and put nothing into the relationship. Unfortunately, for Australia, our beef producers and others are now facing this 10% tariff.

Q: You have closer ties with the Trump administration?

Dutton:

I think we have the ability, as we demonstrated before, to talk to the administration and again the mistruth that was spoken before by the Prime Minister about John Howard, the points I make which is accepted by most sensible people, is that as John Howard agrees with, we should be doing everything we can to enhance the relationship, to make our two countries stronger together.

We’ve been with the US for the last 100 years.

Q: Sounds like your answer to this is because you’ve got closer relationships with the Trump team, you’d be able to get a deal?

Dutton:

We have I think a capacity demonstrated. We’ve already done it, David. And we demonstrated it in the first presidency that we’re able to get an exemption when other countries weren’t. All I’m saying is…

Q: Everyone else in the world can’t get it. You would?

Dutton:

As you know, when other countries were slapped with the tariff last time, we were exempt from it under a Coalition government.

Speers: So were plenty of others. This time no-one has?

Dutton:

We have an ambassador who can’t get a phone call to the President. We had an ambassador who used to play golf with him. (Hockey played golf with Trump ONCE) People in Washington who have worked for Coalition governments, people who have worked for the Australian Government. I think there is the ability to do a deal. The point I was making in relation to defence is the Americans came to our aid in the Battle of the Coral Sea and stood with America through every battle. It’s an incredible relationship. You can look at off take agreements with critical minerals, supply chain surety so their weapons systems and their guided weapons can be constructed. And that is a critical part of what I think we can bring to the table. It’s not a threat. It’s about how you can enhance the relationship which seems to escape, have escaped this government.

Q: Mr Albanese, do you trust Donald Trump?

Albanese:

Yeah. I have no reason not to. I’ve had a couple of discussions with him. And the last discussion we agreed on a series of words that he would give consideration. Great consideration was the words he used. And he did that. In the end he made a decision as part of the US administration to put these tariffs on every country. We got the lowest amount. But we made it very clear that was an act of self-harm by the US. The US enjoys a trade surplus with Australia. All this will do is put up costs for American consumers.

Q: Just while we’re at it, do you trust China’s President, Xi Jinping?

Albanese:

I have no reason not to either. In terms of the discussions we have had as one on one discussions have been important. China’s our major trading partner. One in four Australian jobs depends upon trade. It’s in Australia’s national interest to have a good economic relationship with China. We have different political systems. We do. That means different values and we have very different values with China. What I’ve said is we’ll cooperate where we can and disagree where we must but we’ll engage in our national interests.

Q: Mr Dutton, do you trust in Xi Jinping?

Dutton:

The relationship that we have with the President of China for the reasons the Prime Minister outlined. It’s important for our economic stability and sovereignty. We negotiated 11 free trade agreements and this Prime Minister has only delivered one. I want to see trust in the relationship and we have to stand up for our sovereignty and have a respectful relationship. I had a very good meeting with the Premier from China when he was out a couple of months ago.

Q: And you trust him?

Dutton:

Again, I spoke to him across the table. I haven’t done business with him and shaken hands and seen whether somebody has honoured that deal. I don’t have any reason to distrust.

Albanese:

Can I make a point in the agreements that I’ve reached with the Premier, they have all resulted in precisely what was agreed on both sides. And now as a result of that, $20 billion of trade with China has been restored. Because of the free trade agreement we signed. To be clear. It didn’t operate for the entire time in which your last term. There were no discussions. No phone calls, no meetings. No trade. There was a diplomatic freeze. In terms of the trade relationship it is something we established through the free trade agreement.

Dutton:

There were difficulties in relation to 5G. If you want to talk about that period. We took a decision as a government to exclude high risk vendors from 5G because we wanted to protect our telecommunication system. If the Prime Minister was suggesting – because it was bipartisan at the time – that wasn’t an appropriate step for us to take in our national interests, then he probably should say so.

Q: Do you trust this President, Mr Dutton?

Dutton is obviously very nervous about this question:

David, I said in relation to President Trump I thought the scenes we saw coming out of the White House, the treatment of President Zelenskyy, was a disgrace and appalling. I stand by those comments

Q: Do you trust him was the question?

Dutton:

We trust the US, and I don’t know the President. I’ve not met him. The Prime Minister obviously has been able to.

Q: You’re not willing to say you trust him?

Dutton:

I don’t know Donald Trump is my point. My point is who I trust is the Australian people. My job is to stand up for our country’s interests which is what I did when we negotiated the AUKUS deal with President Biden.

This is a very, very different Dutton to the one earlier this year who was saying he would get on better with Trump, because he was the sort of personality Trump liked.

Now he is all Mariah doesn’t Carey ‘I don’t know her’ about him? Sure, Jan. Sure.

Q: Clearly, Mr Albanese, there are expanding defence cooperations going on between Russia and Indonesia. They held some exercises in November. And just yesterday Russia’s Deputy Prime Minister met the Indonesian President in Jakarta. Does this concern you?

Albanese:

Well, that’s an extraordinary double down from the alternative Prime Minister of Australia who verballed the Indonesian President yesterday. Indonesia will be the fourth largest economy in the world. They are an important partner of Australia.

We have an important defence relationship with Indonesia as well. I regard the Indonesian President as a personal friend and we have good relations there. The idea you throw out these comments is just extraordinary. And the fact that we just saw a double down on it as if there’s nothing to see here, just shows there’s no understanding of the need for diplomacy. Diplomacy means engaging seriously in a calibrated, serious way. Treating Indonesia with respect, as we do other nations that we deal with.

Q: Quickly on that, you pointed out Indonesia is an important partner and President Subianto is a personal friend. Why haven’t you been to Indonesia since he became President? Because I’ve been here domestically but the President I have spoken with and the President was here just before his inauguration. When did you last speak?

Albanese:

He’s a regular visitor. We have discussions at the senior levels of government.

Dutton:

I think the Prime Minister is full of bluster because he knows he’s got it wrong again in relation to national security. This is a government that’s ripped $80 billion out of defence and we have seen the relationship in relation to Indonesia and Russia grow closer. Now Indonesia is an incredibly important partner. I met with the President-elect when he was out here and had a very good relationship with him as Defence Minister when we were both in that portfolio.

I had a lot to do with the previous President in Indonesia as well. So we have a stable solid relationship. But that means that if there is to be some change in the security settings in our region, that if there is respect for the Albanese government, of course there is not at the moment because they see this Prime Minister as weak.

Then why wouldn’t there be a response or why wouldn’t there be even to the Foreign Minister, to the Defence Minister to say this…

Albanese:

This is important. Peter is suggesting there should bow a response to something that isn’t happening. This is the second of the failures that we have seen of diplomacy and of mature responses to international issues just during this campaign. When President Trump made the announcement that every single country in the world will be hit with tariffs, the alternative Prime Minister suggested that we should put defence and our defence relationship with the US on the bargaining table. And it took John Howard to intervene to point out how that would be.